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Lack of Putter Fitting
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TOPIC: Lack of Putter Fitting

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grantar2
Lack of Putter Fitting
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    July 14, 2015


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    Danny Lee
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    Medowlark


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Monday April 16, 2018 9:16 PM
So for the first time in 30 years I was seriously shopping for a new putter. I thought getting fitted would be easy, and a data driven process much as my iron and woods fittings had been. I would go in bring my existing putter, build a baseline and be handed a few putters and my data measured. Local to me are two golf shops and a sporting goods shop that claims to be a golf shop. I have the PGA Tour SuperStore (which had the greatest number of putters to evaluate), Roger Dunn, and Dick's Sporting good (who have the fewest putters). None are set up to measure you and help you pick the right club or adjust it for lie, and loft? That seems so odd, with so many new tools on the market to do just that. They offer suggestions but no data.

After spending more than three days trying putters, going back and trying them again, I found one I think I like. Hard to say putting on carpet, I almost suspect the floor is rigged.

Given how important the putter is it seems odd to me. It's funny because ultimately I found three putters I liked. One was a 2018 Select Scotty Cameron Newport (Part of the allure was the name and the bling), A Ping, and a new 2018 Cleveland Huntington Beach #8. Based on pure feel, there was surprisingly little difference. I couldn't do a blind because even with my eyes closed I could feel the difference in the grips. Ultimately as much as it would be cool to have the Newport, the Huntington Beach won out. The Ping felt nice but I had a harder time lining up shots, and no I don't know why.

Cleveland claims the club can be adjusted by a club fitter, but without any of the stores having a putter fitting, not sure how you decide if you need that.

Interesting adventure. Anyone here had a putter fitting and where did you go?
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 Message #87883
TMoney88
RE: Lack of Putter Fitting
Member Since:
    April 16, 2018


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    DJ / Rickie
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Monday April 16, 2018 9:26 PM
I never had a putter fitting, however, when I was looking for a new putter, I tried a few and wound up liking a Ping putter I had borrowed from a friend. Ultimately, I kept with Ping brand and stumbled upon this online fitting guide: http://nflightweb.ping.com/#ready

Not sure if you wanted to try the guide and see if a putter pops up that you had not tested, or if it would give you a better idea for different putters outside of Ping.

Good Luck!

Tom
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 Message #87884 - This was a reply to message #87883
Nickesquire
RE: Lack of Putter Fitting
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    August 11, 2007


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    Jack, Freddie, Tiger
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    Maderas Olivas Classic Cl


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Monday April 16, 2018 10:02 PM
Like most things in life, IF you get someone who knows what they are doing, I would recommend a putter fitting Art.

My stats on GK go back over a decade now, well over 1000 rounds of tracking every putt in every round. I played with the same Ping Anser 2 putter for approximately 20 years. I upgraded it to a newer Ping Anser 2 a little less than 2 years ago.

For the new putter, I got fitted @ Ping's HQ in Phoenix. They put a device on my old putter and had me attempt about twenty 8-15' putts. They did the same on some newer models. The recorded data plus the fitters own observations told him some things. Mainly, that the way I stroked the ball was adding loft to my putts. He suggested a putter with 2 degrees less loft to get the ball rolling smoother earlier in the putt.


I felt more comfortable with the new putter almost immediately, but it was just a feeling at that point. I had no hard facts to validate that feeling.

Fast forward 22 months and hundreds of rounds later... With the new putter, I am averaging .85 putts less per round on all putts. I hit less greens that I used to, easier to one putt a chip than a full iron from the fairway... so that could be somewhat misleading.

However, I am also averaging .10 putts less per GIR. I went from three putting slightly more than I one putted a GIR to now where I am one putting slightly more than I three putt a GIR.

Think about the implications of that stat... We are talking thousands of GIR's for the period recorded above. I have turned a not insignificant amount of three putt bogeys into 2 putt pars or even 1 putt birdies. And while I am always watching, listening and hopefully learning... I seriously doubt that after playing for 45 years and being in my late 50's that I suddenly showed that much improvement!
REPLY
The goal is long and straight! But on the many times I cannot seem to hit them straight, I at least want to hit them long!
 Message #87888 - This was a reply to message #87883
sr129
RE: Lack of Putter Fitting
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    March 31, 2010


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    N/A
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    goose creek


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Tuesday April 17, 2018 8:17 AM
Goose Creek has the ability to do putter fittings
There is a video on the Greenskeeper you tube page where they do one with Johnny's hot dog
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 Message #87890 - This was a reply to message #87888
OsamabinHacking
RE: Lack of Putter Fitting
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    August 25, 2015


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    El Tigre
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    The one I'm Playing


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Tuesday April 17, 2018 10:42 AM
If you really wanted that Scotty... https://www.scottycameron.com/golf-gallery/#fitting They charge $350 for a fitting 2 hours and you may get to meet the man...
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 Message #87891 - This was a reply to message #87890
ocgolfer19
RE: Lack of Putter Fitting
Member Since:
    July 25, 2008


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Tuesday April 17, 2018 11:20 AM
Pretty sure No Bogeys Golf in Laguna Niguel does putter fitting using SAM PuttLab. I've never had a fitting, but have used them for some club work in the past. Good guys.
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 Message #87893 - This was a reply to message #87883
michaelko
RE: Lack of Putter Fitting
NorCal Community Staff

GK Event: Played in a GK Event

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    October 1, 2003


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Tuesday April 17, 2018 12:53 PM
edelgolf.com

here is my post from 2 yrs ago
http://www.greenskeeper.org/forums/discussions.cfm?forumid=16&topicid=73351&kw=edel

looking at their site, they've added fitters.

still very pleased. My putting is even better, as I've taken a few short game lessons and it has helped immensely.

I know 2 people who jumped in, and they are both very happy.
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 Message #87897 - This was a reply to message #87893
grantar2
RE: Lack of Putter Fitting
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    July 14, 2015


Favorite Golfer:
    Danny Lee
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    Medowlark


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Tuesday April 17, 2018 7:02 PM
QUOTED  Pretty sure No Bogeys Golf in Laguna Niguel does putter fitting using SAM PuttLab. I've never had a fitting, but have used them for some club work in the past. Good guys.


I didn't even know they existed.
REPLY
 Message #87900 - This was a reply to message #87893
grantar2
RE: Lack of Putter Fitting
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    July 14, 2015


Favorite Golfer:
    Danny Lee
Favorite Golf Course:
    Medowlark


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Tuesday April 17, 2018 7:10 PM
Took the Cleveland out to the practice green today and put some work in. The putter is very different than my Probe 20/20 I have been using for years, and the oversized grip is slightly slimmer than the Winn grip I had been using on the 20/20, but it feels great in my hands. Back was a little stiff from shooting the Long Beach Grand Prix this weekend, but everything seemed right.

I need to put a lot more than one session to feel the speed. The roll was very nice. The practice green was just healing from being punched so can only learn so much. OC Golfer thanks for telling me about No Bogey Golf. If I find I have issues with my New Huntington Beach I now have a place to go for adjustment.

[[Edited by grantar2 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 7:12 PM]]
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 Message #87901 - This was a reply to message #87900
leef2020
RE: Lack of Putter Fitting
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

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    March 26, 2016


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Wednesday April 18, 2018 2:24 AM
Seeing the posts here is very illuminating and interesting. While it is disappointing that one cannot truly get 'fit' at a 'big box store', as a matter of course, it is unsurprising. As others have pointed out, one needs to be willing to value and actually be willing to pay for such a personalized and valuable service.

'Fitting' for golf clubs, including putters, is a blend of science and art, and a process of 'give and take', or 'try this' and then, 'try that', using personal feedback as a guide. There is no singular scientific process or 'result' that can be consistently applied for all golfers. Huh? ;-) Whether it is SeeMore, Edel, or others, the proprietary fitting 'systems' all tend to point to what they are selling - a specific result within their product line, at the exclusion of a number of putter options by a range of other manufacturers. No surprise, really.

And, what defines/represents a good 'feel' for one golfer may be very different from another. Even for each golfer, that can change from one day to the next. Golf greens vary by grass type, play at time of day, etc., and therefore, the optimum 'loft angle' of the clubface for any golfer varies not just by one's set-up, 'forward press'/or not, and stroke, but by also what conditions the putter is put into play on the day. As exemplified by the putter that may indeed perform great in 'the studio' / on carpet in this thread, but then seems to leave putts short in the real-world of grass on greens, is an example of the need for 'dynamic fitting' to include head/back-weighting as part of the equation.

Having fit a few folks for putters, finding the right head weight/overall balance, back-weighting, etc. can also make a huge difference aside from what has been discussed already.

Art, since you have already selected a seemingly very decent putter (Cleveland HB 8) for your needs, I wish you well with it. It seems you may, however, still have questions as to if 'it actually fits' your putting game.

Here are my thoughts/suggestions for you to consider with your putter and if, at some point, you may want to consider any 'bending' to a different specification. I will assume it meets the 'looks'/confidence aspect of putter selection and that you are happy with that.

The basic questions then relate to 'static' and 'dynamic' fitting for a putter, i.e., 1) is it the right length, 2) is it the correct lie angle and 3) is it the correct loft.

So, taking them one-by-one with your selected putter, to help you decide if you actually may benefit by future modifications...

1) Take your normal stance and set-up with your current putter. Ideally, your eyes should be in direct alignment with the ball to the target. When you are comfortable, take a coin and drop it from your dominant eye. If it drops on/inside the line of the ball within an inch or two, your set-up position is great. If it is not, and the coin lands more than a few inches inside your putting line, you are probably set-up too far away from the ball and will be inconsistent in your putting, regardless of the tool you are putting with.

Setting up too far inside the line of putt (coin drops inside the putt line more than 1-2 inches) , is indicative of the putter length being too long for you.

2) Now, assuming you've got yourself a putter fit for length (or choked up to a proper length for further testing), get a small picture-hanger level (1 to 1 1/2" in length) and place it on your putter head. Align yourself with your putter to make a putt in a proper setup position as described earlier, and get the level 'bubble' into its level position.

Once you do this, measure the 'lie angle' with a lie angle measuring device. You can then compare this to the stated lie angle and decide if you need to make adjustments as necessary. (see tool example: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Johnson-Pitch-and-Angle-Locator-750/1001935 39 )

3) Face Loft angle: This really needs to be fit dynamically, depending on set-up. any forward-press, typical green grass length played, type, etc. Standard putter lofts are 3-4 degrees, and I'd generally suggest staying with that/whatever the 'std' loft of the putter is. However, specific situations do suggest a modification. You can measure loft at address with the same tool as mentioned above, if desired.

As a general point, if you find that the ball is 'popping up' upon impact, this indicates that one has too steep an 'angle of attack', resulting in too low of an effective loft for the putter. In this case, either set-up/technique needs to be changed, or loft of the putter needs to be increased, perhaps adding 2-3 degrees of loft to the putter. I've seen this error with a lot of golfers. Think of face 'loft angle' as the amount of loft needed to get the ball moving forward and rolling most effectively ABOVE the level/length of the blades of grass in front of the ball. When greens that are cut short in the morning, you do not need a putter with quite as much loft as you might want in the afternoon when putting on, for example, Poa annua that grows a lot.

IMHO, the Edel link provided earlier, and their current options/considerations for fitting, I think are excellent, very well thought-out, and something for everyone to strive for when getting fit for a new putter. I've seen the SAM Puttlab in action at the PGA Show earlier this year, and they do provide an excellent examination of one's putting stroke, albeit more of a putting 'lesson' than an actual putter fitting. If you're up for that level of examination/analysis, I'd highly recommend it.

[[Edited by leef2020 on Wednesday April 18, 2018 2:36 AM]]

[[Edited by leef2020 on Wednesday April 18, 2018 12:55 PM]]

[[Edited by leef2020 on Thursday April 19, 2018 12:47 PM]]
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 Message #87907 - This was a reply to message #87901

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