Discussions in --- Use This to POST ---
Moderated By CPennbo, JohnnyGK, Nickesquire, ringworld, weber2323

Forums
Greenskeeper.org
--- Use This to POST ---
Should Tour Pros Be Held Responsible?
YOUR SETTINGSLIST FORUMSLIST TOPICSSEARCH

TOPIC: Should Tour Pros Be Held Responsible?

PRINT TOPICSEND THIS TO A FRIEND

Listing 11 to 20 of 28 Replies

PAGES: 3 1 2 3
Nickesquire
RE: Should Tour Pros Be Held Responsible?
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    August 11, 2007


Favorite Golfer:
    Jack, Freddie, Tiger
Favorite Golf Course:
    Maderas Olivas Sherwood


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Monday October 8, 2018 9:12 AM
Some of the opinions/answers contained herein vary widely and may be correct or incorrect, depending on where the incident occurred. Standards vary in civil and criminal courts by the jurisdiction in the U.S.

Who knows what the standards could be elsewhere?
REPLY
The goal is long and straight! But since I can no longer hit them long, could I at least hit them straighter?
 Message #89546 - This was a reply to message #89544
RDDenn
RE: Should Tour Pros Be Held Responsible?

GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    September 22, 2006


Favorite Golfer:
    N/A
Favorite Golf Course:
    Barona Creek


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Monday October 8, 2018 1:55 PM
California applies primary assumption of the risk to injuries incurred during recreational activity. So a golfer is not liable for injuries caused to other golfers from errant shots unless the hitting player has done something to increase the risk from that inherent in the sport. A fairly recent example was a tee placement where a golfer walking from the last hole was hit by a player on the tee. I forget if the case was against the golfer or the course, but in that fact pattern it could have been either. Drinking could go either way. The original assumption of the risk case was a football game at half time of the Super Bowl in which a lady lost a finger. Hard to believe that drinking was not involved but they held no liability in that case.

Courts have gone both ways on injuries to spectators at paid sporting events. Wayward balls are part of the dangers in attending events. Should they require covered stands along fairways in areas the driver might hit the ball? Hard to believe they would go that far.
REPLY
 Message #89547 - This was a reply to message #89529
CPennbo
RE: Should Tour Pros Be Held Responsible?

Community Director/Women

GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    March 20, 2003


Favorite Golfer:
    Annika/Mickelson
Favorite Golf Course:
    Balboa


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Monday October 8, 2018 7:54 PM
"consider the account of Corine Remande, the 49-year-old Ryder Cup spectator who was struck in the eye by an errant Brooks Koepka drive and has lost sight in her right eye. In an interview with Agence France-Presse last week, Remande said when she was writhing on the ground moments after being hit, fans around her didn't rush to help her but instead merely took pictures."

Very sad statement on golf in general and I am stunned by some of the comments on this thread. These are PROS not amateurs. It is a BIG event, not a round at the local club. The woman LOST HER SIGHT in that eye, she didn't just get a bump. I suspect that many would respond differently if it had been them or someone they love.
REPLY
New Year's Resolution- HAVE MORE FUN, DO MORE, SEE MORE, LAUGH MORE!
 Message #89548 - This was a reply to message #89547
JohnnyGK
RE: Should Tour Pros Be Held Responsible?

JohnnyGK

GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    December 30, 2002


Favorite Golfer:
    GK'ers
Favorite Golf Course:
    Cascata


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Tuesday October 9, 2018 6:28 AM
QUOTED  "consider the account of Corine Remande, the 49-year-old Ryder Cup spectator who was struck in the eye by an errant Brooks Koepka drive and has lost sight in her right eye. In an interview with Agence France-Presse last week, Remande said when she was writhing on the ground moments after being hit, fans around her didn't rush to help her but instead merely took pictures."

Well its been really upsetting to me. Fans not rushing to her aid and the only slack I am giving Brooks for not withdrawing from the tournament and accompanying her to the hospital was the fact he was playing for his team and the consequences of him withdrawing would not effect just himself. The photo of her on the ground with blood gushing out of her eye is horrifying (I wish that pic was never taken - I might have a nightmare about it). That's just how I feel personally about it. I'd dropped everything I was doing to help a fellow human being in need like that. And I don't care how many people are already helping her.
REPLY
GK FACEBOOK - Please check it out - CLICK HERE - I'm doing fun posts all the time.
 Message #89549 - This was a reply to message #89548
michaelko
RE: Should Tour Pros Be Held Responsible?
NorCal Community Staff

GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    October 1, 2003


Favorite Golfer:
    N/A
Favorite Golf Course:
    N/A


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Wednesday October 10, 2018 9:49 AM
QUOTED  Under Negligence Standard yes you are liable for not controlling your golf ball. You are to know your game and play within your own limits. Hitting a slice off of your driver and hitting a window of a nearby house is considered negligence (practice more, use a different club that you can control better etc).

I have a hard time believing this to be accurate. You can't hold someone liable for sucking. Hitting a slice and hitting a window is hardly negligence. it's poor skill. the owners of the house bought it knowing it's in slice zone, so they take on that assumed risk.

negligence for an individual golfer? maybe if you hit the ball, and someone was in your way, and then you hit anyways without warning them?

most of the liable actions would fall under recklessness.

saying, i'm going to take the ball, aim it right at this house way out of bounds, and bring it back onto the course, because it's a unknown shortcut, and then hitting the house, one could argue recklessness. but then, you'd have to prove intent, which short of video and audio recording, basically with the golfer announcing their intentions, is pretty much impossible to do.
QUOTED  Generally, recklessness—unlike negligence—requires a conscious choice of a course of action, with knowledge or reason to know that it will create serious dangers to others.


the way i understand it, negligence is failing to do something that would have prevented the harm, and knowing you should have done it, (like fixing a railing that has been reported, and someone falls)
or ignoring safety considerations that a reasonable like person would have known to avoid. which in the eyeball case, is what they would be claiming. They didn't rope it off correctly, or call fore correctly, and most event organizers would have made sure those conditions didn't exist.

It seems in this eyeball case, unless i'm missing something, the event did everything within the norms, and when you buy a golf tournament ticket, you assume the risk of flying golf balls landing on you (which it says right on the ticket).

now if you are a lawyer, and i am wrong, well... i still think i'm not wrong.
REPLY
 Message #89567 - This was a reply to message #89544
michaelko
RE: Should Tour Pros Be Held Responsible?
NorCal Community Staff

GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    October 1, 2003


Favorite Golfer:
    N/A
Favorite Golf Course:
    N/A


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Wednesday October 10, 2018 10:11 AM
QUOTED  f someone hits a golf ball on a golf course, no matter the circumstance, if it strikes another person, the person that hit the golf ball is held responsible.

I don't think this is true.
REPLY
 Message #89570 - This was a reply to message #89529
michaelko
RE: Should Tour Pros Be Held Responsible?
NorCal Community Staff

GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    October 1, 2003


Favorite Golfer:
    N/A
Favorite Golf Course:
    N/A


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Wednesday October 10, 2018 10:17 AM
QUOTED  Regardless of any disclaimer listed on the back of the admission ticket, the bigger question going forward is just how much of a warning are/will the event organizers be required to post? Signs at the entrance to the golf course? Signs on every tee box? Public service announcements every 15 minutes? A pamphlet issued with each ticket explaining the risks involved with attending the event? Like I said in my earlier post, this incident will bear watching for further developments.

this has already been tested in the courts... baseball stadiums are not liable for foul balls. If you sit in a place that gets foul balls, you assume the risk.

Just by walking onto the course, in the line of play, you assume risk.

one example where a spectator would have a case:

crossing zones, if one wasn't marked and manned properly, in the course of play, then the spectator could have a negligence case.
REPLY
 Message #89571 - This was a reply to message #89543
mdames
RE: Should Tour Pros Be Held Responsible?
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    January 18, 2006


Favorite Golfer:
    Phil
Favorite Golf Course:
    Pebble Beach Golf Links


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Wednesday October 10, 2018 10:28 AM
I think one point of perspective to keep in this terrible incident is that someone being struck by a ball at a pro tournament and BEING SERIOUSLY INJURED is rare. I truly do feel for the injured woman in this case. But it seems obviously clear to me that when one is on a golf course as a spectator, and very hard balls traveling in excess of 100 mph are flying around, a reasonable person is de facto warned of potential danger and personal harm. Just plain common sense.
REPLY
 Message #89572 - This was a reply to message #89567
michaelko
RE: Should Tour Pros Be Held Responsible?
NorCal Community Staff

GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    October 1, 2003


Favorite Golfer:
    N/A
Favorite Golf Course:
    N/A


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Wednesday October 10, 2018 10:34 AM
QUOTED  Well its been really upsetting to me. Fans not rushing to her aid and the only slack I am giving Brooks for not withdrawing from the tournament and accompanying her to the hospital was the fact he was playing for his team and the consequences of him withdrawing would not effect just himself. The photo of her on the ground with blood gushing out of her eye is horrifying (I wish that pic was never taken - I might have a nightmare about it). That's just how I feel personally about it. I'd dropped everything I was doing to help a fellow human being in need like that. And I don't care how many people are already helping her.


unless you know what you are doing, i.e. trained medical personnel, if there are already people there, you want to stay out of the way. Too many people can cause different problems. You could go up and ask if there is anything you can do, but depending on when you get there, they may not need you.

Koepka should have zero expectation to help. By the time he walks up there, medical personnel has already been called... there is absolutely nothing he can do to help. It doesn't matter that he's playing a team event, or an individual event... You think he should withdraw? accompany her to the hospital? I absolutely disagree. he would offer nothing to help. And he did nothing wrong. If a football player tackles someone and sends him to the hospital, should that football player stop playing? get in the ambulance with the player? of course not. He keeps playing. Because that's his job, and he did nothing wrong. Even if it was dirty and illegal, he was playing football and that is the game, and legally, he did nothing wrong.

now, if it's true that she got hit and no one helped her, that sucks. the question is, How long exactly was she unaided? If it was 10 seconds, I can understand that. She might say longer, but her perspective would be skewed... 10 seconds in pain can feel like much longer than 10 sec. I can also understand people not wanting to get involved. It's initial instinct. Maybe people saw it, and then waited for her to get up, hoping it would be ok. maybe people are scared off by the blood: the more gory the scene, the more people would hesitate to get involved... Not everyone can handle the sight of blood. And not knowing what to do would stop people from helping. Because, what do you do? It sucks, but I kind of understand it.

Now if there were a nurse, or doctor, or any trained medical person that just watched? that person is in the wrong profession.
REPLY
 Message #89573 - This was a reply to message #89549
CPennbo
RE: Should Tour Pros Be Held Responsible?

Community Director/Women

GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    March 20, 2003


Favorite Golfer:
    Annika/Mickelson
Favorite Golf Course:
    Balboa


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Wednesday October 10, 2018 11:47 AM
QUOTED  [Posted By michaelko on 10.10.2018 10:34 AM]


It appears that your love for the game might have impacted your compassion. I read a lot that has been written about this. No one helped her for quite a long time but there are definitely many videos and pictures circulating. If you did nothing else holding her hand and talking to her would have been compassionate. Profiting, even social fame, from her misfortune is a terrible statement on golf and golf spectators.

As for responsibility I don't think we will have to wait long to have a legal decision on the matter. I do know that anyone can put any kind of disclaimer they want to on any ticket or event- it doesn't make it true and it doesn't alleviate responsibility.
REPLY
New Year's Resolution- HAVE MORE FUN, DO MORE, SEE MORE, LAUGH MORE!
 Message #89574 - This was a reply to message #89573

Listing 11 to 20 of 28 Replies

PAGES: 3 1 2 3

[ Community Page ]