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TOPIC: Slope Ratings

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gmihan
Slope Ratings
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Monday January 11, 2021 2:07 PM
Hey Everyone,

I got a quick question about slope ratings for courses with different Par totals. For example, how do you compare a Par 70 course with a Par 72 when they both have a slope of 122? I know that it is different, but the question is how much? Thinking that there has to be a formula used to do this but nit sure what it is. Thanks!
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 Message #97549
RDDenn
RE: Slope Ratings

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Monday January 11, 2021 3:29 PM
I think you have to look at the course rating to get a good idea on how the courses in the example would compare. if the par 70 course has a rating of 70.3 and the par 72 course has a rating of 71.7, the conclusion would be that the par 70 is more difficult. A more concrete example is Lakewood (par 72) v. Rancho Park (par 71). Both are 124 slope from the blue tees. Lakewood has a rating of 71.5 and Rancho is 70.7. That indicates to me that Lakewood plays slightly easier, to par.

The course rating I believe is a function of how a scratch golfer would play a course so the fact that Lakewood is more than 300 more yards farther from the blue tees than Rancho may be more of a factor to the average golfer. Course rating though is one way to distinguish similarly slope rated courses.
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 Message #97551 - This was a reply to message #97549
roarksown1
RE: Slope Ratings
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Monday January 11, 2021 4:34 PM
QUOTED  A more concrete example is Lakewood (par 72) v. Rancho Park (par 71). Both are 124 slope from the blue tees. Lakewood has a rating of 71.5 and Rancho is 70.7. That indicates to me that Lakewood plays slightly easier, to par.


Having played both Bob, would you agree with that assessment from a personal standpoint? Personally I think Rancho Park plays tougher than Lakewood, but not by much. I just think it's interesting to inquire about who determines that, much like individual hole handicap ratings at all courses. Played Twin Oaks yesterday and the hardest handicap hole on the back nine was a long, but straight and wide par 5, while the next hole was like 13 or 15 in terms of handicap and was a tough, narrow 205 yard par 3 with no room for error. Everything is subjective!
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 Message #97552 - This was a reply to message #97551
RDDenn
RE: Slope Ratings

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Monday January 11, 2021 5:58 PM
QUOTED  Personally I think Rancho Park plays tougher than Lakewood, but not by much.

Interesting question. Historically, I have played Lakewood a lot more than Rancho, but in the last few years it has been more Rancho. The last few years I have broken 80 more at Rancho, but it is a par 71. So it is tough to say. Maybe I have a better mindset at Rancho.

Neither here nor there but I will agree that from the black tees Rancho is tougher. Early in the morning, the black tees are a load and a half.

Hole handicaps are interesting. I think those are determined by the difference between a scratch golfer and the average golfer. Prevailing wind can be a factor in that. So, what might have been easy on the day you played is tough on the usual afternoon round. On the par five it might be a birdie hole for the scratch player and a par hole for the average player, while everyone bogeys the par 3. I agree with you though that it can be a head scratcher when you look at a straightforward par five and see it as the #1 handicap hole.
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 Message #97555 - This was a reply to message #97552
noeldaof
RE: Slope Ratings
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Wednesday January 13, 2021 11:00 AM
QUOTED  Hey Everyone,

I got a quick question about slope ratings for courses with different Par totals. For example, how do you compare a Par 70 course with a Par 72 when they both have a slope of 122? I know that it is different, but the question is how much? Thinking that there has to be a formula used to do this but nit sure what it is. Thanks!


Hi, I'm trying to understand the question to compare par 72 vs 70. A regulation par for a course; 70/71/72... is a property of how the course is built or designed. It's rating anywhere from the 60's to mid 70's refers to the scoring difficulties.
The slope (122) is the lay of the land. The more hills or change in elevation the course has, the higher the slope it will receive. That number works together with the above number, the rating- it will push it up higher as the slope goes higher.
Also, I agree with the guys above about the higher the "rating" is, the more difficult it would be to score lower.

I could be wrong, but all this information are in the SCGA website. I'm just not sure if they've changed the level of access to the handicap chairman.
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JVGA
 Message #97565 - This was a reply to message #97549
noeldaof
RE: Slope Ratings
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Wednesday January 13, 2021 11:04 AM
Here are the basics in the SCGA link:

http://www.scga.org/blog/11799/what-is-course-rating/
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JVGA
 Message #97566 - This was a reply to message #97565
bnr1986
RE: Slope Ratings
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Thursday January 14, 2021 8:27 AM
slope is more than just the lay of the land. trees, hazards, bunkers, doglegs, width, length, rough length etc all affect slope. slope is really about how a bogey golfer is affected. as someone else mentioned, course rating is more for the scratch or advanced player, and the biggest factor in course rating is length (for better or worse)

i don't think you can look at slope in a vacuum without course rating, and i don't think you can look at course rating without seeing the differential between the course rating & par. to really get into it, i think you also need to factor in length if you're trying to determine what's a more challenging golf course.

as for hole handicaps at a course, it's a common misconception that the #1 handicap hole is the "hardest hole" on the course. in fact, the #1 handicap hole at a course is the hole as determined by the handicap committee or local golf association as the hole where the standard deviation between what a scratch golfer & bogey golfer will both score, on average. that's often why the top few handicap holes at a course are long par 4s or par 5s. the bogey golfer is far more likely to make a 7+ on that type of hole while the scratch golfer will come away with a 5 more often. compare that to a long par 3, a score of 4 is more likely for both.
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 Message #97589 - This was a reply to message #97565
Nickesquire
RE: Slope Ratings
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Saturday January 16, 2021 10:02 PM
The USGA's website has in depth rating and slope descriptions, and the info above is a solid start.

In it's most simplistic terms, the higher the rating, generally the longer the course. The higher the slope, generally the more difficult the course.

When I took a handicapping workshop, it was stated that the individual course assigns the hole handicaps. It is recommended (but not required) that in each group of three holes, the course assigns one hole that is in the 1-6 handicap range, one hole that is in the 7-12 handicap range and one hole that is in the 13-18 handicap range to evenly divide the 18 for handicapped match purposes.

I think we are all in agreement that we run into MANY courses that make choices on their hole handicaps that makes you scratch your head. Many courses are reluctant to make a par 3 a lower handicap hole. How many 200+ yard par 3's have I run into that are about the 14th or above handicap hole? And with rare exceptions, par 5's should rarely be the #1 handicap hole IMO.
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The goal has always been long and straight! But since I can no longer hit them long, hopefully straighter could be achieved more than occasionally?
 Message #97627 - This was a reply to message #97589
michaelko
RE: Slope Ratings
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Sunday January 17, 2021 5:22 PM
slope has NOTHING to do with the course elevation. It's a math term, referring to a line slope.

if you plot what a scratch golfer shoots, and what a bogey golfer shoots, 72 and 90, the slope of that line is 113.

on a higher rated, higher slope course, scratch shoots 73, while the bogey golfer shoots 95... the difference is bigger and the slope of that line is steeper, like a 125.

this also explains why on higher slope courses, higher handicap golfers will receive more pops than their number compared to single digit golfers.

this also explains why on higher slope courses, your posted index is lower than your real score, and drops your index lower than what you actually shoot., and the higher your index, the bigger the difference.
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 Message #97629 - This was a reply to message #97627

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